bow girls gone wild

[fxy]

My name is Heather, I'm a 16 yr old who shoots and loves archery. I think that we, as an archery family, need to take a stand against the type of advertising Martin has started. Although I am not old enough to make very many consumer choices, I do know the difference between right and wrong. This type of advertising is the wrong image of archery to be put out to other kids, and people expect more from us than that. Archery isn't just a lot of men and 16 yr old boys. We have women and little kids. My little brother looks at Archery magazines and I know I don't want him looking at this. I don't want him to think of women as sex symbols. What about all the other kids? Is this the image that you as parents want portrayed to your kids as the sport you love? I know that I will NEVER buy anything that uses this type of advertising. Will You? Just because you have a product to sell doesn't mean that you have to degrade women to do it. Those types of advertising will likely cost them more than what they are aiming for. I sure hope so. Then maybe my little brother and I will be able to look through our archery magazines without thinking that we're looking at a dirty magazine. It's not just my little brother what about your kids, nieces, nephews, sons, daughters, grandchildren? What about them? :huh: :huh:

[I BOW 2]

Heather it is very admirable of you to voice your families moral interpretations. No doubt reinforced continually by your parents! :police: I would ask though that you examine your own motives for your statements. I am sure that you as a well rounded and highly educated teenager have been taught that nothing "negative" can influence your moral ideals unless you allow it to be done. If you feel that you can not in all honesty control your interpretations of the Current Martin ads from damaging your moral doctrines, then by all means have your parents preview your archery reading material. They can then remove any and all things, words ,phrases, themes and of course pictures from causing you serious moral harm. :shocked: Also be aware of everything else in the big world that can be misinterpreted as morally offensive to some people! Ken

[DonDeere]

...well I BOW 2, your reply to this young lady is "your" interpretation of these advertisments and "your" view from "your" stake about her opinion...although you make the attempt to lay it all on "her families moral interpretations" :rolleyes:

...and you are entitled to your opinion on that just as she is...

...I find it extremely refreshing that this young lady sees things differently than you old timers who are willing to accept "whatever" comes down the pike...

...four hooves up for her!! =D>

...four hooves down for you :(

[I BOW 2]

DD the point was not to belittle her , her familly or anything in general. I was merlly showing that if you live in a shell. That we as a morally driven society can loose sight of the prize at the end of the journey of life. That is the biggest problem with the world that we live in today. Each person believes that there way is the only way. I am sure that I can not convince you of my intentions over the "evil" box., but some day I will get to see ya face to face! :xn_smile: Ken

[brinirmess]

Heather it is very admirable of you to voice your families moral interpretations. No doubt reinforced continually by your parents! I would ask though that you examine your own motives for your statements.


How smug can you be? Just because a girl has a brain and can think on her own, you degrade her "moral interpretations", just because her desire is not be be looked upon in that manner, to be taken seriously because she holds a bow too. come on...where do you get off with that? Heather by no means needs anything reinforced to her. She is a good kid, 3.5 GPA, honor society, FCS(fellowship of christian students) who happens to represent the State of La. as the ASA Champ for the last 2 years. Because she feels that this type of advertising is becoming acceptable is her opinion. What you failed to grasp is that she as do I feel that archery should remain a FAMILY SPORT. If you can hold your head up and say yes, this by no means bothers me as a man, a father, and a sportsmen then by all means, please keep your moral reservations away from MY DAUGHTER, THANK YOU.

[DonDeere]

...Ken I am positive you meant no harm to her or her family for the views they have...I've known you for many years from logging onto the "evil box" and know you to be a good guy...

...however, if everyone simply continues to allow the Howard Sterns of America to expouse their profane, perverted tripe as though it were "acceptable" by the majority...we might as well live in Sodom and Gomorrah...and I bet you could even find some involved with Archery who would even give a *PDT_Armataz_01_34 to that lifestyle...

...my journey as well as many others, and possibly even yours will end one day...I may take a sight seeing tour to the towns listed above...but I have no intentions of residing there, nor will I ever accept abnormal behavior as normal...

...I thought you were a bit harsh in your comments to this young lady Ken, and responded as I felt I must...

...thats the great thing about this site...you can like Martin while I like Hoyt...and no one will be harmed in the process 8)

[lterry]

Heather
I am the mother of 14 year old girl who also regards this type of advertising to be unacceptable in our family sport.* :xn_lol:*

It gives me much pleasure and pride in our young people today to see them stand up and express their opinions regarding how manufacturers represent and advertise their product.* *:lol:*

Everyone has a right to express his/hers opinion regarding this subject.* *They can also choose to purchase from this manufacturer or choose not to.*

Hold on to your moral values, and remain a good influence on the young people around you.* * :D

[fxy]

Hold on to your moral values, and remain a good influence on the young people around you.

Thank You and I will.

And not because my parents forced it upon me but because I choose too.
:x_cool:

DD... Thanks.
:x_wink:

[Steve hilliard]

Heather, good for you! Its nice to see a teenager that has your values. I commend your parents on raising you right. It is refreshing to see your concern on this issues. for whatever reason they chose that path, which sure has alot of attention, but does send the wrong message to the archery community. thats just my opinion. thankyou Heather!!!!! :)

[Jerry]

Well bout time for me to add my few pennies. I dont care if you're 16 or 60, this stuff about the Martin pictures is really getting blown out of proportion. The worst thing you can do is watch your TV set. Just last nite there was a commecial I think it was Strawbridges where the women only had bras and panties on....I mean come on now ! :shock: And the way they walked was seductively, whatever. So is that to make women buy the undies? It sure as he!! is not makin me want to go buy any ! Or am I supposed to tell my wife of 30 years to go buy em cuz I saw em on TV!?
That was only one example I could use and I could go on and on about this as I have just sat back and read so far. I see pictures of girls and women at archery shoots, who are just about wearing the same thing, hip huggers, belly button pierced and in view.......as I said, I could go on and on. This is 2004 and the way it is. Some things I dont like and if I dont like a way a product is advertised or who the company is affliated with, I dont give them my business! Plain and simple.
I would rather see everyone channel all this wonderul ENERGY into fighting the antis who want to take away our rights of shooting, hunting, fishing, etc. or the abuse of women and children in ou country!!!!!

For those that dont know me, I am (almost) 50 years old, have 2 grown college educated young adults who I am very proud of, my son (27) is in law enforcement and my daughter (25) is married and has 3 kids , a house and a degree in teaching.......so I do have some life experience :wink:
Nuff for now, my son is here and wants to talk about some stocks.

[SPECTRE]

Heather...... *first of all welcome to ArcherySite. :D


I understand the intention of IBOW's post.... *and I agree with DD's post as well.


When it comes to exploiting females merely to increase your sales....... *well, let's just say there's gotta be a better way.

But regarding I Bow 2's post......... *the wildest kids I've ever met are preacher's kids out on their own for the first time. :shock: *The initial freedom they experience is more than they can handle. *I'm not trying to stereotype, but this is just what I've seen.

I would hope that someone would appreciate me in the archery community for my willingness to promote the sport, and my ability and prowess through thousands of hours of dedication and practice......... *and not just my good looks *8)

I hope that you stick to your guns as you grow older Heather........ *Guys that are "the real thing" will respect you for it. :D

But regarding I Bow's post....... *I don't have any stake in Martin, but I can't tell them how to do their job....... *but I can agree to not support it.

Not flaming them, it's their decision to make. *But it's not the decision that I would make. *I hope to see my daughter in archery pics in the future...... *but I truly hope that she'll be wearing a BowTech shooting shirt and "real" jeans and Danner shoes......... *taking a crack at a 3D critter........ :wink:

And Jerry...... thanks for your post........ Of course it's only my opinion....... but SOME of the Martin ads are the abuse of women..... :angry: :wink:

The latest pic I saw of Kate........ (sitting with her bow, looking down) is very tasteful.

Again, Kate is a very attractive girl, and I'm sure that nobody held a gun to her head........ but I wonder what she would think of many of the comments made about her (vulger on some site's)....... Shallow guys? Of course....... but when you put it out there for the world to see, you can't exactly have your cake and eat it too I reckon......

[Steve hilliard]

that is the point, we raise our kids to appreciate the outdoors and to share our passions. just cause they have pretty woman modeling there bows doesnt mean we all need to go out and buy one! Archery is a family sport and should be addressed a such, the ads are not bad by any means but we need to watch the impressions we leave, yes we see it everyday but does not belong in the sport of archery.

[SPECTRE]

I'll throw this out for what it's worth, and again, I'm not flaming Martin because they can do business as they see fit......

But even though Kate is extremely attractive........ do you reckon they used her in the ads to save money as opposed to paying a professional model? She could've been paid a mint for all I know...... but since it's Terry's step-daughter......... :huh:

I'd be curious to know...... :undecided:

[OregonArcher]

This horse dead yet? :grin:

[Mrs Archer]

This horse dead yet? :grin:


I hear ya; I think it's a stalemate - Martin won't change cause it's selling bows; those against won't buy because of their beliefs; and others don't care because this is minor (IMO) in the scale of sex in our lives.

[bowtech_babe]

This horse dead yet? :grin:


I hear ya; I think it's a stalemate - Martin won't change cause it's selling bows; those against won't buy because of their beliefs; and others don't care because this is minor (IMO) in the scale of sex in our lives.*


AAAAAAMMMEEENNN! To the both of ya!

Samantha

[mainiax]

This horse dead yet? :grin:



I hear ya; I think it's a stalemate - Martin won't change cause it's selling bows; those against won't buy because of their beliefs; and others don't care because this is minor (IMO) in the scale of sex in our lives.*



AAAAAAMMMEEENNN! To the both of ya!



could not have said it better myself.*
thank you

mainiax

[clayking]

It appears that the ads are working quite well......just witness this thread and all the others started of late. *I suspect that Martin loves each and every thread started. *

The ads are opposed by some who feel that they recognize what is *"right or wrong". *Opinion, I think. *One's own level of what is acceptable to them. * It is not their duty to dictate what level my moral meter points. * For those who will boycott Martin because of these ads are certainly in their right. *The additional sales, that Martin assumes from this ad campaign would seem to outweigh the negative few as evidenced by a 25% rise in sales. *All because of ads, I suspect not-- perhaps just a better bow. *Ads such as these are done for basically for one single reason, to garner attention. *

It would appear to be a huge success from that standpoint. *I see worse in the mall each visit from teenage girls. *Does one view cheerleaders, dressed in short shirts, tight shorts, to be determental to football? *How many boycott the local high school games. *Music industry? *Movie industry? *TV? *My gosh, the opening scene on some show last night had a couple clearly having "sex" at the beginning of the show. *Wonder how many calls they recieved? *Network TV! * What's Sports Illustrated most popular issue? *Are we boycotting sports?

And we are going to draw the line in the sand over girls in bathing suits selling bows. * I think we have more serious problems.

Will this little ad campaign by an archery company led archery down the path to the willful destruction of the morality of the country. *Not hardly. *Does it add to it? *Or is it a reflection of our society?

Study history and I believe one will discover that's it nothing new, been there, done that.

Before one boycotts Martin's bows, then one best trot on down to the next "car show" and see how many are not being shown by very pretty ladies. *Sex sells. *Always has, always will. *Which shoe will you wear to carry that Hoyt as you "walk" to the range. Or those sexy blue jeans that the dog rips off the girl left only in a skimpy pair of briefs. Graphic and on TV upteen times a day.

Now before one jumps on me for support of *"freedom of expression", I too feel that many parts of our society has pushed the individual rights of a few over the rights of many. * But then, I don't have the answer *where one stops and the other begins. *At one time in this country we put witches to death. *How far do we wish to bo back, to what time. *Pick one, and we'll find plenty *in that era who said the world was coming to an end........the good ole days are in every generation.

Roll with the punches.............................ck

[canam]

Am I missing something? Are the girls naked or something? The only thing I've seen is a few pictures of a girl showing her stomach when she is holding her bow at full draw. Maybe I've been around REAL teens who naturally dress this way that I am immune. The way I see these girls dress is the way KIDS DRESS TODAY. I feel very qualified to reply this way because I am amongst them every day. There is nothing "revealing" or "sexual" or "degrading" IMHO. I agree with everybody else about this being blown way out of proportion and it should be put to rest.

I guess the ads are the only thing people can find wrong about Martins because they make a darn fine bow. That's not opinion, it's fact. :)

[xring]

I feel as though I can shed some light on the subject as I got a lot of the calls about the ads most of the time.* Do I agree with the ads???* No.* Is it because they are trashy? No. (even though I think they could be done in a more professional manner through a marketing group).* The reason I never like the ads and the biggest complaint I received from customers was that the ads presented the way they were made the product seem or look "cheap"* And it's kind of the way I feel as well.* I know Martin makes a fair bow, but most people I spoke with would rather see someone that was in the sport that actually shoots, or a female hunter in the photos. My $.02 I know Martin saved a lot of money by having Kate do the ads, but sometimes you get what you pay for. That is one reason why Mathews, Hoyt, and Bowtech are so strong in their customer base...it is because they hire someone to create an image for them and and spend the money on a marketing group & I think most would agree it works and it works very well.

[SageCreek]

Stick to your guns fxy!

You are the kind of kid I want my daughters hanging out with. :angel:

[rcher54]

Sounds like it's time for one of the good mods out there to lock this one down ,as it doesn't change anyone's opinion here on this forum just as the same subject was blown way out of proportion on other forums. The truth is in this. First right ammendment gives the choice to veiw or read whatever we want to and that right given to us by the founding fathers is what we should support.

[skip]

I see this as being discussion, between opposing viewpoints, ...

Not sure why it got locked unless I missed a post..... I'm unlocking it....

[clayking]

Good............thanks skip. Although we are ovedoing this topic with excess threads. Here, there everywhere........................ck

[coon]

What many have failed to see in Heather's post, was that she's worried over is this where our sport is headed.
Up until she saw Martin's latest ad, she had no problems with them. Should she or should'nt she be concerned?

[SPECTRE]

It wasn't me!!! :icon_cheesygrin:


I like CK's post, and I do believe it's a reflection of our society as a whole. :wink:


Similar to Janet Jackson's superbowl episode..... a ploy to create hooplah and it worked...... :shock:


Just like the Martin ads....... every time we form ranks on this issue it merely draws more attention to their product, so I reckon it's working! :D


So now the real question is....... should I get a belly ring before Gainesville? :shock:

[Preacher]

It wasn't me!!! :icon_cheesygrin:


I like CK's post, and I do believe it's a reflection of our society as a whole. :wink:


Similar to Janet Jackson's superbowl episode.....* a ploy to create hooplah and it worked...... :shock:


Just like the Martin ads.......* every time we form ranks on this issue it merely draws more attention to their product, so I reckon it's working! :D


So now the real question is.......* should I get a belly ring before Gainesville? :shock:


I think you are right Spectre, it is sadly a reflexion on society as a whole.* Some have said this is 2005, what's the big deal, I see worse than that every day.* That is the Big Deal. * We have come to accept that as the norm.* Do or say what ever it take to make money.


The additional sales, that Martin assumes from this ad campaign would seem to outweigh the negative few as evidenced by a 25% rise in sales.

Matthew 16 : 26
For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

What is considered normal and just good business according to todays standards will not profit a man anything when he takes that final breath.

"It is a wise man who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."

[DonDeere]

This horse dead yet? :grin:

...don't know OA...heere, try this ten foot pole I got cheer and have a poke at it once :evil: ...I think it musta just ate a whole darn bunch for it layed down over yonder :wink: ...

...wha choo think :-k ...

[hs6181]

I think the ones I've seen with the girls clothed were pretty nice, you have to look at them with beauty in mind, not sex. Maybe this one above with the bikini is a little over the top, its pretty hard for the normal (maybe I'm not normal???) red blooded american male to think of just booty, whoops, I mean beauty with that one. :xn_redface:

[clayking]

What many have failed to see in Heather's post, was that she's worried over is this where our sport is headed.
Up until she saw Martin's latest ad, she had no problems with them. Should she or should'nt she be concerned?


These threads do have a way of going off into another direction, but good point.

I do not believe that Martin's use of these "ladies" showcasing bows will in way, shape, or form degrade the sport of archery. I don't believe that one will see many of these ladies, in that attire, on the range.

Doesn't ASA have a collar code? NAA, white or blue pants? IBO, freshly patched jeans....lol? :lol:

No, I think archery will survive this quite well. Not to worry Heather. This is all about sales, nothing more, nothing less.


Matthew 16 : 26
For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

What is considered normal and just good business according to todays standards will not profit a man anything when he takes that final breath.



I would be more worried if Martin was telling lies and mistruths about their bows. Showcasing, would to me, a tad outside of that verse, but that's my opinion...................ck

[Jerry]

Heather,

Just a tad bit curious here, what does your nickname here (fxy) refer to or what does it mean? Thanx

[SageCreek]

Just what is it again they are selling? :lol:

[SPECTRE]

Doesn't ASA have a collar code?* NAA, white or blue pants?* IBO, freshly patched jeans....lol? :lol:




So I guess my belly ring is a "no - go" in Gainesville. Maybe if I have the collar and just cut the bottom off of the shirt???? Provided that the big "Team BowTech" logo is still on the back???? :shocked:

[fxy]

Just a tad bit curious here, what does your nickname here (fxy) refer to or what does it mean?

I was and still continue to shoot a mathews fx bow, and when I started I was in the Girls youth.FX for my bow, Y for the class I was in. I was trying to keep it simple.

[SPECTRE]

Cool!

[fxy]

Thanks, I always thought it was pretty cool, too, and had never looked at it in any other way. I guess it's kinda like the ads.....it's all in the eye of the beholder. :shock: :angel:

[DonDeere]

...didn't see that one coming did "we" :shock:

...excellent handle...simple, yet refined 8)

[Jerry]

Thank you fxy.......very good idea :D

[SPECTRE]

So mine would be OGOA :icon_cheesygrin:

[ldfalks]

I locked the thread because rcher54 called for it. So far not much more has been posted so I guess it has pretty much died on the vine. If you all want to keep up the discourse that's cool with me :) Sorry if I jumped a little too soon :(

[AKDoug]

So mine would be OGOA

Old Guy on Acid?

Frankly, FXY... the first thing that came to mind was Foxy... I'm just a man-pig and I can't help it.

My 5 y.o. and 9 y.o. daughters flip through the pages of my bowhunting mags and never even notice the ads... Kate is wearing more clothes than Lindsey Lohan (sp?) in her latest video on Nick Kids.... I agree with X-Ring about building loyalty in the brand. The advertising that Hoyt, Mathews, and even Newberry do with mountains in the background just makes you want to get out and hunt. The new Hoyt Catalog is a work of art IMHO and Martin's' isn't half bad. If they took that same add company that did their website and catalog to make their print adds I still think they would sell as many bows.

[rcher54]

Sorry I requested that the thread be locked ldfalks! I was merely trying to save our guru some server space over something which has been rehashed over and over again on other forums!* :x_biggrin: Post On!! :x_biggrin: